NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/programmer/2070

Text File | 1996-08-05 | 5.9 KB | 160 lines

Path: informatik.tu-muenchen.de!fischerj
From: [e-mail] (Juergen "Rally" Fischer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Demo/game to OS frien
Date: 26 Jan 1996 18:02:57 GMT
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4eb50h$[e-mail]>
References: <4e8h9j$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hphalle5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Originator: [e-mail]


In article <4e8h9j$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thore Bjerklund Karlsen) writes:
|> (Michael van Elst)
|>

|> Give  me  a  reason I shouldn't believe it.  Get VBR, do a LoadView(0),
|> set  the DMA you need, set the interrupts you need, do a Forbid().  You
|> don't really need much more to get it working.  After you are finished,
|> just put everything back the way it was.

The only thing your demo will need is the "Loadview(0)".
seems that copper stuff can't be done with OS.

But forget vbr, interrupt severs work well. Blitter usage is also no
problem, you can even own() it.

Forbid() seems to be replacable by the task run at hi pri (let user
select pri level) and a input-handler.


|> Reality  proves  me  right.  The only compatibility problems I have had
|> was  with a player that played twice as fast as it should on 040, but I
|> didn't  make it.  As far as I know, all my code works on machines up to

I heard about a mod-player using audio-device, I don't know how efficient
it is.

|> No,  I'm not.  I'm interested in GOOD software.  I don't want a demo or
|> game  that "simply works".  I want a GOOD demo.  I want a GOOD game.  I
|> don't  want to watch dot-routines with 20 dots in a frame, because they
|> use  PutPixel()  or  whatever  (I  don't even know the name) to make it
|> "simply  work".  Whether I want to watch dot-routines at all is another
|> matter..  :)

Well, I agree games need to go efficient way, but as I said,
the only non-OSy thing you need to do is owning the copper.

Not putpixel, but just render to chipmem when chipset present,
writepixelarray8 when gfx-card selected.

It really is a problem to get copperdemos on gfx-cards, but then
that's not the aim.

All those chunky games working full speed on AGA and also on gfx-cards,
that's the real thing to be discussed.

|>
|> >>Things like demos/games obviously need their  processing  power
|> >>for themselves.
|>
|> >Rubbish.
They need the cpu power.

|>
|> ..  if you want a stunning demo/game..  Not WBTris or similar.
You get the cpu power without OS shutdown.

|>
|> >>We simply don't have powerful enough machines to do it otherwise (yet).
|>
|> >Again: RUBBISH.

No, lot's of A1200 users like the demos. well, demos don't care.

But same goes for games, lots of A1200 around, and the "need to
upgrade for this game" sticker doesn't currently work on the
Amiga market.

I see that there won't be so much upgraded machines either,
if the games won't work on them.

|>
|> Not at all.  Not everybody is rich, you know.  Do you seriously believe
|> that  a standard A1200 would have had any great games if everybody used
|> the OS?  I dare you to name ONE great game using *only* the OS!

Well, the thig is, as I said, when done correct, everything except copper
can be done OS-compatible.

The reason why you don't see such Games is most companies still do
it the A500 way. But I see a nice turn in game market, they make it
compatible.

BTW gloom is a game that is slow because of it's routines, select
hardware-takeover and you gain nothing noticable on vanilla A1200
vs running in OS mode.

|>
|> >For your kind you will NEVER have powerful enough machines and it is
|> >really fascinating that your kind always IGNORES machines that are more
|> >powerful.
|>
|> Oh,  I ignore machines that are more powerful?╗Nothing could be further
|> from the truth.
|>
|> >>In a perfect world everybody would use the OS.
|>
|> >A perfect world would probably reduce the EGO of the beloved c00l
|> >c0d3rz.

It depends. you can still have your challenge in doing fast rendering
routines. But true, it is fun to do things considered impossible,
and for example Sanitys fake 1x1 24bit 50Hz almost fullscreen floormapper
won't be possible using OS only. It is a routine by a indeed C000l C0d3r,
it just made me and my friends (PCers) go "oooooh".
I think you can live with a demo beeing AGA-only, the question is,
as I said, rather Games on both AGA & gfx-card, and for chunky
games the question is imho already just solved.

Well, what about paralax scrollers, lowlevel.lib is said to be
able to do it (and this means no blank between vports, if C=
would not have slept I could do blitterscreen now OS compliant!
take this!).

Not using vports, but blitting planar bitmaps to a gfx-card screen
should enable p2c hardware and solve the problem.

major problem imho: how to get bitmaps into fastmem ?
I guess using gfx-cards I just can allocmem(fast) but
I know I'll be told that's c0d3r style...

solutions for the paralax on gfx-card story ?

changing rendering routines to chunky for gfx-card support
is too much work for game companies btw.

|>
|> Do you seriously believe that we WANT incompatibility?  I wouldn't mind
|> using DrawPhongPolygon() or NiceGamePlease() at all!  The point is:  We

heehee :) I would mind it if it was a routine written by a
ElIt3 D3v3l0pp3r :D It would jerk like hell on a A3000 with gfx-card ;))

|> don't have fast enough machines to make stunning realtime-effects using
|> only  the  OS.  Well, not EVERYBODY has.  We can't use general routines
|> for everything, it's simply not good nor fast enough.
|>
|> __
|> \\\__ Thore B. Karlsen  % [e-mail] % C64-C128D-A1200-A2000C
|>  \XX/ Wowbagger/AFL&SSN %  -c0d3r-  % A1230/50MHz-2C4F/340MB
|>
|> Ezek.4.12: And dou shalt feed da bud it as barley cakes, and dou shalt
|>            bake it wid dung dat comed out uh man, in deir sight.
|>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   [e-mail] (Juergen "Rally" Fischer)   =:)